tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978485750390455025.post5832190878089360732..comments2023-05-25T07:17:05.918-04:00Comments on Abide in My Word: I'm still waiting . . .Rev. Thomas C. Messer, SSPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13740553600700598394noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978485750390455025.post-77991018859342220252010-08-04T15:06:40.443-04:002010-08-04T15:06:40.443-04:00My sister is an artist. I remember looking at art...My sister is an artist. I remember looking at art with her one day, and she commented that she had no idea what it was that the artist was trying to "say" in the piece in question. I get the same feeling from liturgical dance. What exactly is it saying? Is it an appeal to my emotions, or if not, I guess I need a little plaque affixed to the dance to explain what it means. In other words, liturgical dance is completely subjective, and ultimately isn't a Word of God that comes to us from outside of us, but instead a response conjured up in our own imaginations.<br /><br />"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. We write this to make our joy complete." <br />1 John 1:1-4 NIVScott Diekmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03227142854778319475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978485750390455025.post-38899167124786176282010-08-03T10:21:43.829-04:002010-08-03T10:21:43.829-04:00Robbie F,
No, that documentation would not count ...Robbie F,<br /><br />No, that documentation would not count as a theological rationale. The point is that no such documentation exists, at least, not to my knowledge. But, even if it did, we would still have the obligation to test the practice against the theology of worship we believe, teach, confess, and practice as Lutherans. I cannot see how it could possibly pass that test, and the burden is on those who defend the practice to do so theologically, which, as I mention in the post, they continually fail to do. <br /><br />The truth is that this is just another innovative Protestant practice that some Lutherans picked up without a) seriously testing it against our theology of worship, b) examining the historical precedent upon which it is supposedly based, and c) considering the effect the adoption of this practice would have on the broader fellowship to which they belong.Rev. Thomas C. Messer, SSPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13740553600700598394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978485750390455025.post-42581599083635403792010-08-03T08:13:04.548-04:002010-08-03T08:13:04.548-04:00Does documentation that something was practiced, s...Does documentation that something was practiced, somewhere in catholic Christianity, up to the 5th century count as a theological rationale? I, for one, doubt it.RobbieFishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14112535005437118728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978485750390455025.post-29588024953823330192010-08-02T12:37:28.773-04:002010-08-02T12:37:28.773-04:00Andrew,
Yeah, ironic. And, scary. I'm sure ...Andrew,<br /><br />Yeah, ironic. And, scary. I'm sure liturgical dancing is seen as a legit theological expression to those who teach on the theme theologian as dramatist. But, where did such teachers learn this stuff, that's the question. The answer, I'm sure, would reveal much! <br /><br />Dennis,<br />Exactly! If people want to dance, perform, entertain, and so forth, have at it - just don't do it in the Lord's House during Divine Service. That's the point, and I, for one, believe that it is made vividly clear throughout Holy Scripture.Rev. Thomas C. Messer, SSPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13740553600700598394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978485750390455025.post-3641919270216751372010-08-02T08:32:43.907-04:002010-08-02T08:32:43.907-04:00Rev. Messer -
I can offer the following selection...Rev. Messer - <br />I can offer the following selections from Alfred Edersheim's "The Temple - Its Ministry and Services." The only reference to "dancing" in relation to the Temple at Jerusalem occurred in concert with the gathering of the wood for the sacrifices. The rabbinic Mishnah records the following reference:<br /><br />"on the afternoon of the 15th of Ab, when the collection of wood for the sanctuary was completed, and on that Day of Atonement, the maidens of Jerusalem went in white garments, specially lent them for the purpose, so that rich and poor might be on an equality, into the vineyards close to the city, where they danced and sung." (pg.261)<br /><br />Edersheim adds the following note, "According to the Talmud, the 15th of Ab was the day on which the prohibition was removed which prevented heiresses from marrying out of their own tribes." (pg.270)<br /><br />From where this midwesterner sits in Saint Johns, MI, the entire event could be construed as an early rendition of "Sadie Hawkins" day. Either way, the actual dancing was never part of the Temple ministry nor service ritual and no references can be traced to the Book of Leviticus where God institutes liturgical worship.<br /><br />Peace,<br />DennisDennis Peskeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453626099945639267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978485750390455025.post-60724303409677333642010-08-01T19:40:42.723-04:002010-08-01T19:40:42.723-04:00Liturgical Dancing was presented as part of a clas...Liturgical Dancing was presented as part of a class that was required for my minor in Confessional Lutheranism-Ironic huh? Anyway if was supposed to be a legit theological expression. The theme of the class was Theologian as dramatist.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17592158696437870800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978485750390455025.post-45776527685990108852010-08-01T17:13:14.415-04:002010-08-01T17:13:14.415-04:00Thanks for the link, Andrew. As you note, not the...Thanks for the link, Andrew. As you note, not the same thing. I actually saw this practiced at a wedding in an Orthodox Church years ago. I don't know if the way I saw it practiced is the norm, but there wasn't any real "dancing" involved, and what I saw was certainly in no way comparable to the "liturgical dancing" under consideration here. Plus, the beautiful and very reverent chanting during this procession kept things in perspective, for sure. I did think it was a little weird, but I didn't have the "This should NOT be happening in the Lord's House" feeling I have when I witness "liturgical dancing." <br /><br />What is being taught at CSP? This Orthodox ritual or "liturgical dancing"? If the former, weird; if the latter, scary.Rev. Thomas C. Messer, SSPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13740553600700598394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978485750390455025.post-38223723881407300292010-08-01T16:49:00.335-04:002010-08-01T16:49:00.335-04:00This is not the same thing, but it is the only thi...This is not the same thing, but it is the only thing that I know of that comes close. Interesting post. Did you know that this was taught at CSP? <br />http://www.antiochian.org/1284Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17592158696437870800noreply@blogger.com